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Ever been intrigued by the mysteries of horror films and the eerie entities they portray? Brace yourself for a gripping discussion as Anna Schmidt of the Perfectly Paranormal podcast and I unravel the chilling narrative and thematic depth of the 2014 Australian horror film, The Babadook. We dive into the plot's fascinating dynamics, the cast's extraordinary performances, and the unique challenges faced by a young actor immersed in a spooky role.
From the first eerie encounter to the climactic power struggle, The Babadook takes its viewers through a haunting journey of possession and redemption. Anna and I dissect the progression of the paranormal presence in the film, shedding light on the emotional trauma that fuels its manifestation. As a twist, we discuss a less conventional approach to dealing with such entities, prioritising emotional resonance over traditional tools. We even bring to light a recent, real-life case that tests this unique approach.
Moving beyond the spectral spookiness, our conversation delves into the profound themes and imagery that create the haunting ambience of The Babadook. How does the strained relationship between Amelia and her sister underpin the narrative tension? What's the story behind the sinister book that introduces the Babadook? Join us as we navigate these dark narratives and the enigmatic corners of the horror genre.
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Please note that this podcast often explores topics and uses language from past eras. This means that some of the discussions may include attitudes, expressions, and viewpoints that were common in those times but may not align with the standards and expectations of our society today. We'd like to ask for your understanding as we navigate these historical contexts, which are important to appreciate the era we're discussing fully.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Monster Kid Podcast.
00:00:39
Pete: G'day and welcome to A Dingo Ate My Movie, a podcast
00:00:42
where we talk about the weird and wonderful world of
00:00:44
Australian film from the 70s, 80s and beyond.
00:00:47
As always, I'm your host, Pete, and today I'm joined by Anna
00:00:51
Schmidt of the perfectly paranormal podcast to discuss
00:00:56
the Babadook from 2014 .
00:00:58
really the It's really the latest movie I've ever done on
00:01:01
this podcast, but welcome aboard , Anna.
00:01:05
Anna: Hello, pete, it's great to be here.
00:01:08
Pete: I love the Name of your Podcast.
00:01:09
It rolls off the tongue very nicely.
00:01:11
The three P's.
00:01:12
Anna: The three P's.
00:01:13
Well, life is perfectly paranormal from my point of view
00:01:17
.
00:01:18
Pete: The Babadook is a 2014 Australian horror film about
00:01:21
Amelia, a widowed mum, and her son Samuel.
00:01:24
They find a creepy children's book about a monster called the
00:01:27
Babadook and soon realize the creature is real and tormenting
00:01:31
them.
00:01:32
It's a psychological thrill ride that explores both grief
00:01:36
and fear and all sorts of other things.
00:01:38
It's a very unsettling movie at times.
00:01:42
It stars Essie Davis, noah Wiseman, daniel Henshel Hayley I
00:01:48
should have checked this one.
00:01:49
It's Mac and Haney, barbara West and Ben Winspear.
00:01:54
It was written and directed by Jennifer Kent, who also wrote
00:01:58
the book Monster and the short film which this movie is based
00:02:02
on.
00:02:02
The budget was $2 million.
00:02:05
It made around $10 million at the box office.
00:02:08
I did really well.
00:02:08
They did a round of fundraising and then I think they got the
00:02:13
balance from the government and a whole lot of other stuff.
00:02:16
It's currently rated a 6.8 out of 10 on IMDBcom and has a 98%
00:02:25
critic score and a 72% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes, which
00:02:29
is really good.
00:02:30
It's a very highly regarded film.
00:02:32
This one is a lot different to a lot of the other films I do on
00:02:36
this podcast.
00:02:36
I watched it on Netflix in Australia, so I think it's
00:02:41
probably streaming somewhere in the world at any time.
00:02:43
You can get the DVD.
00:02:46
I think Umbrella Entertainment do the DVD.
00:02:49
They have a Blu-ray and now they have a 4K Blu-ray.
00:02:51
I haven't picked them up yet but I will.
00:02:54
The film was primarily shot in Adelaide, south Australia, as
00:02:57
per a requirement from the South Australian government, which
00:03:00
actually provided some funding for the film.
00:03:02
A lot of the interior shots were basically just shot on a
00:03:05
soundstage in the city.
00:03:06
One of the things I guess we'll talk about is how this would
00:03:11
have been working with this young boy who was 6 years old in
00:03:14
this movie.
00:03:15
It was quite interesting to see whether it would be very
00:03:19
harrowing for him, but it was interesting.
00:03:21
Looking into the film a bit, the Jennifer Kent herself said
00:03:25
that they had to be really protective of him when they were
00:03:28
filming.
00:03:28
They did some reverse shots where SE Davis was abusing his
00:03:33
character and for those scenes the director had SE Davis yell
00:03:38
at an adult stand-in that was down on his knees for the height
00:03:42
.
00:03:42
She was saying that she didn't want to destroy someone's
00:03:45
childhood just to make a movie which others Very good.
00:03:48
What were your first thoughts on this film, anna, when you
00:03:51
first saw it?
00:03:53
Anna: Well, I'm what I call a paranormal addict.
00:03:56
I work in the paranormal realm as a house healer and I'll go
00:04:00
into homes and clear people's homes of paranormal intruders.
00:04:04
So I live the lifestyle of the paranormal every single day.
00:04:09
So this movie is right up my alley because we're talking
00:04:12
about a lower vibrational being is in this home.
00:04:17
And, yes, I actually think for Sam the character.
00:04:21
It would have been quite unsettling for a boy of that age
00:04:25
to be an actor in this movie, but I think that they would have
00:04:29
mixed up the shots and substituted him out, like you
00:04:34
said before, with an adult actor , because it is quite
00:04:37
confronting.
00:04:38
I've watched it a few times and some of the scenes still make
00:04:42
me shudder and sort of look away , and because, being a mother, I
00:04:47
would never speak to my child the way that she spoke to him.
00:04:52
But there are reasons why she used that tone which I'm sure
00:04:56
we're going to talk about later on.
00:04:58
Pete: At first.
00:04:59
I've got to say the kid drove me up the wall for the first 20
00:05:03
minutes of the movie.
00:05:04
He drives me nuts and he's really annoying and there's lots
00:05:07
of memes on the internet all about it and all that sort of
00:05:09
stuff.
00:05:10
But eventually the movie got a lot more serious and a lot more
00:05:15
dark, definitely a lot darker, and I wasn't sure at times
00:05:20
whether my initial thoughts were are they having like a shared
00:05:24
psychosis?
00:05:25
Because obviously the mother was sleep deprived and she was
00:05:31
sort of dealing with grief and all that sort of stuff.
00:05:36
The son was also very affected in a lot of ways as well.
00:05:41
Anna: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:05:42
Now, when I look at Sam, I feel that his character was actually
00:05:49
very psychically open.
00:05:50
Children are very open to the psychic realms.
00:05:53
They see spirits, they see the low vibrational beings, they
00:05:57
feel them, they just they know they're around.
00:05:59
And I found I actually thought that Sam was on the spectrum and
00:06:04
I find that sometimes children who have highly, highly
00:06:09
sensitive actually pick up on these paranormal beings.
00:06:13
And I'm sure we're going to talk about some of the gadgets
00:06:16
that he made.
00:06:17
He was highly creative, oh my gosh, a little bit frightening,
00:06:21
but he had a reason why he made these gadgets.
00:06:24
But he was just very open.
00:06:26
I mean you can talk about a shared psychosis.
00:06:29
He would have felt his mother's grief but he didn't know why
00:06:32
until they tell us right at the end of the movie.
00:06:35
But I, you found him annoying, I actually found him fascinating
00:06:40
.
00:06:40
I like to study people in these sorts of movies and see how the
00:06:44
character develops and where they go with it.
00:06:48
Pete: Yeah, I think I found him annoying at first.
00:06:49
I think it was just when, once the once he did start, the
00:06:52
character did start developing.
00:06:54
I think that's where it really caught on for me and I just
00:06:57
found it fascinating that that this little boy could act this
00:07:01
way.
00:07:01
For starters, and because they must have, he still had some
00:07:06
scenes that he had to do in this movie that would have been
00:07:09
probably difficult for him to do right, because there's scenes
00:07:13
where he's kind of having a seizure in the back of the car,
00:07:16
that sort of stuff, and for him to do that I'm sure they did it
00:07:21
in a way that they kind of I don't know, made a game of it or
00:07:24
whatever they did to kind of, you know, make it easier for him
00:07:28
.
00:07:28
But a lot of those scenes he can't help but being in with his
00:07:32
mother in the movie, and a lot of those scenes are quite
00:07:37
disturbing.
00:07:38
I found it quite disturbing and I also found it quite thought
00:07:42
provoking.
00:07:43
So my wife and I both watched it the other night and when I woke
00:07:48
up in the morning I said just the usual thing, asked my wife
00:07:51
how she slept and she said well, I would have slept better if it
00:07:53
wasn't for that movie and I said, well, I said, why were you
00:07:57
scared?
00:07:57
She says no, I just spent most of the night just thinking about
00:08:00
it and and all this is the same , it just spent a lot of time
00:08:05
just thinking about the movie and about what I just watched
00:08:08
and trying to make some sense of it.
00:08:09
And there's so many little parts of this movie that we
00:08:14
can't.
00:08:14
We won't cover everything on this, because one I don't really
00:08:17
want to give a lot away because it's definitely a movie worth
00:08:20
watching.
00:08:21
If you haven't seen it, I'm sure a lot of people have, but it's
00:08:24
just like.
00:08:25
It's such an interesting movie, like there's you've got the
00:08:28
relationship with the mother and his sister and that's, you know
00:08:33
, been taught for a few years, and it sort of blows up and it's
00:08:39
.
00:08:39
And then you've got the next door neighbor and I'm trying to
00:08:41
figure out where she fits into.
00:08:42
All this really, really interesting stuff.
00:08:45
Anna: Well, the thing is, you've also got the relationship
00:08:48
between Amelia and the I'm going to call it a demonic being,
00:08:53
because it was definitely down the darker end of the scale.
00:08:55
The relationship that she had with that being was quite
00:09:00
interesting and, being a paranormal worker, that is what
00:09:04
I found most fascinating, from the beginning through to the
00:09:08
middle of the movie, where it takes a very, very dark turn,
00:09:11
and the actual outcome was my favorite part I won't say
00:09:16
because I don't want to spoil it for anyone and I'm probably
00:09:19
actually going to watch it again tonight, because every time I
00:09:22
watch that movie I pick up on different aspects.
00:09:25
I pick up on other aspects that I didn't see last time because
00:09:31
I work, like I keep saying, in the paranormal world every day
00:09:34
and a lot of people don't see it , don't feel it, don't want to
00:09:37
know about it, they just want to keep it as paranormal drama.
00:09:40
But paranormal beings, from my perspective, if you don't mind
00:09:44
me saying, they connect to us because we are energy beings in
00:09:49
these physical bodies who create emotional imprints, which is
00:09:53
what Amelia does in this movie.
00:09:55
She has a massive buildup of grief and that creates a
00:10:01
vibration.
00:10:01
And when she creates that vibration and she carries it for
00:10:05
a very long time.
00:10:06
It can attract paranormal beings to her in the house, and
00:10:12
this is what her son sees in the home and, being well the man in
00:10:18
the family, as I saw him as his character developed, he took on
00:10:23
the role of protector.
00:10:25
Pete: I always thought when I was watching the movie, like at
00:10:28
the start of the movie, you know she's already worn out and
00:10:31
she's already grieving and still grieving.
00:10:33
But she just gets worse and worse during the movie and the
00:10:37
feeling I got was that the entity was kind of trying to get
00:10:42
in and when she got to this point of just sheer exhaustion
00:10:46
and just total losing her mind, basically to me that was kind of
00:10:53
like the opportunity that that entity was looking for to enter
00:10:57
her, because there was a period where it almost becomes like a
00:11:01
possession movie, right, like she was definitely possessed by
00:11:04
something I'd actually just listened to I don't think I've
00:11:07
got finished that you've got a recent episode about exorcisms,
00:11:11
and I kind of was thinking about that when I was watching the
00:11:14
movie.
00:11:14
I was like, oh, this is kind of a bit like what Anna's talking
00:11:17
about in our podcast.
00:11:18
Anna: Yes, absolutely I deal.
00:11:20
I don't like using the word exorcism because it brings up
00:11:24
priests and crosses and holy water and tying people to beds,
00:11:28
which is not what possession is.
00:11:29
If you watch this movie, you will see what I call the three
00:11:35
phases, where this entity being knows that she's full of grief,
00:11:39
so it's drawn to her because of her grief and it starts testing
00:11:43
her.
00:11:43
There starts being the bruises and the scratches and the
00:11:47
tiredness and the wearing it down asleep and all sorts of
00:11:49
other issues, and then it starts to destabilize her.
00:11:52
We won't talk about all the things that happen because we
00:11:55
don't want to spoil it.
00:11:55
But then there is that point, that point in the movie where
00:12:02
she is most vulnerable.
00:12:03
It's almost like she fully lets down her guard.
00:12:07
That's its point in, and there's a few things that occur
00:12:11
in the movie after that that I found quite shocking.
00:12:13
That is still in my mind forever.
00:12:14
But it wasn't her at that stage .
00:12:17
What she did was not her, it was this being manipulating this
00:12:24
physical body.
00:12:26
Now I see possession in people.
00:12:27
I think through the work I've done, I've probably seen
00:12:31
possession maybe six times to different, varying levels within
00:12:35
people.
00:12:35
Now you can help these people if you know what you're doing.
00:12:38
I don't use sage, I don't use holy water, I don't use crosses.
00:12:42
It's about finding the trauma and the emotional imprints that
00:12:49
are in people.
00:12:49
That attracts these paranormal beings, and I quite often will
00:12:54
work with my clients.
00:12:54
They will have had to see their doctor first, a mental health
00:12:58
professional, have to be under medical care, then I will look
00:13:03
at the energetic aspect of the person.
00:13:06
Now, amelia was really interesting because right at the
00:13:10
end, my favorite part is the trauma.
00:13:11
My favorite part is where she took her power back.
00:13:15
That's all I'm going to say, but it was really, really
00:13:19
empowering.
00:13:20
Pete: That was a great scene.
00:13:21
We can spoil a bit because I think most people have watched
00:13:25
this movie.
00:13:25
I always make it really clear when I talk about films in this
00:13:30
podcast.
00:13:30
We are going to spoil stuff because that's just the way the
00:13:32
conversation goes If we go around it too much.
00:13:35
But we'll try and sneak around it a little bit because there
00:13:38
are some good bits.
00:13:38
I think it's really interesting that Samuel can see that it's
00:13:42
not his mother as well.
00:13:43
He kind of says to her a few times you're not my mother,
00:13:47
you're not my mother.
00:13:49
Anna: He knew his mother's behaviors, because we all have
00:13:51
behaviors, we all have attributes ways that we do
00:13:54
things, ways that we talk to our children, the way that we cook,
00:13:58
the way that we walk, the way that we talk.
00:13:59
And when energy beings enter a person, their energy changes.
00:14:05
They feel different, they might feel colder to someone that's
00:14:10
talking to them, they might feel warmer.
00:14:11
I quite often find, when I'm talking to someone that has
00:14:15
paranormal entities within them and, believe me, most people
00:14:20
have some level of paranormal attachment just because of life
00:14:23
experiences, traumas, addictions and so forth I have particular
00:14:27
physical signs that tell me that that person has paranormal
00:14:33
entities present and I just find it fascinating.
00:14:36
This whole.
00:14:38
This movie is just totally, it's very real, it is absolutely
00:14:43
real.
00:14:43
I could see what happened to her in this movie happening to
00:14:47
people in reality.
00:14:48
I mean, it's not connected to a book, that is simply a device.
00:14:53
That is the device that they've used.
00:14:54
These beings are in our environment all the time and
00:14:58
this is what I talk about on my podcast.
00:15:00
What I used to talk about on my YouTube channel was to educate
00:15:04
people in a non-beer based way, like when I talk about
00:15:08
possession, as in this movie.
00:15:10
You just make it real for people and then you can
00:15:12
recognize the signs when someone's personality changes.
00:15:17
Their eating habits change, their sleeping habits change,
00:15:21
they go from being totally calm and demure and just a really
00:15:25
nice, kind person to being outright aggressive, dangerous,
00:15:31
and the behaviors are just not normal.
00:15:33
And it can be connected to mental health and to their
00:15:37
emotional trauma, their life traumas, their life experiences.
00:15:40
So it is mental health.
00:15:43
I never, ever say anything is just paranormal.
00:15:45
But demonic level beings don't create what's in a person, they
00:15:52
enhance what is already there.
00:15:54
I make that very, very specific when I talk to people.
00:15:58
The devil never makes you do it , but if you've got a
00:16:02
predisposition or a big build up , like Amelia did, of grief,
00:16:07
they can manipulate you and poke you to behave in certain ways
00:16:12
because they've had that vulnerability and they've got
00:16:15
into your personal energy field.
00:16:18
Pete: Like her personality, takes a 180.
00:16:20
Anna: There's you know, there's like yeah, it's frightening how
00:16:24
it changes right?
00:16:25
Pete: Yeah, it's very, it's, it's almost, and I guess I'll be
00:16:30
weary mentioning it because you've already sort of mentioned
00:16:32
this thing.
00:16:32
It's almost a bit like Linda Blair and the Exorcist, right
00:16:35
when she starts off she's so nice and then her personality
00:16:39
changes completely.
00:16:40
Anna: But there's no, there's no , there's no.
00:16:42
What's the word projectile vomiting?
00:16:45
There's no.
00:16:45
Vomiting up nails or walking across the ceiling, all these
00:16:49
things that I talk about people who have possession.
00:16:52
Some of them hide it really, really well.
00:16:55
I talk about it through my, especially through that episode
00:16:58
I've just put out.
00:16:59
I think it's number 32.
00:17:01
I'm so far ahead with my scheduling I sometimes forget
00:17:05
what is actually released.
00:17:06
But yeah, there's a couple of stories in that podcast episode
00:17:12
where you would never pick that the person is possessed because,
00:17:16
the underlying energy beings.
00:17:20
They're very sneaky and they're very manipulative and they want
00:17:23
to keep the person in that low vibrational state.
00:17:27
And then I want people like me being employed to clear them,
00:17:32
because then the energy beings have to move out and go and find
00:17:35
themselves another host and it's all too hard for them.
00:17:37
They like to stay where they are.
00:17:39
Can I just mention something about a case I did the other day
00:17:42
?
00:17:42
Now I won't mention a name or a location, but there was a young
00:17:47
man.
00:17:47
He'd had a very long history of cocaine usage and his mom came
00:17:51
to me because the doctor couldn't help him.
00:17:53
The mental health practitioner was just, they couldn't help him
00:17:58
get off the couch like he was lying around all day.
00:18:01
He had no energy, he wasn't motivated with life.
00:18:03
When he did get some motivation and he got up and he thought
00:18:06
I'll get a job, I'll get back out in the workforce.
00:18:08
Something pulled him back into that negative state Now because
00:18:15
he'd been on cocaine for such a long time I think it was 10,
00:18:18
maybe 15 years he was used to living in that low vibration.
00:18:23
He'd attracted energy beings to him that were feeding off what
00:18:27
he was creating from that cocaine vibration, as well as
00:18:30
all the emotions that went with it and his mom said to me which
00:18:34
was the clincher.
00:18:35
She said every time he picks up and he's happier and he gets
00:18:40
out into life and wants to do things, he falls back into a
00:18:44
hole again.
00:18:44
And I went.
00:18:45
That tells me he has demonic level beings manipulating him.
00:18:51
Now I worked with him and his mom told me the other day that
00:18:57
his life is looking better, like he's happier, he's more stable
00:19:01
mentally and emotionally.
00:19:02
She said he's more settled.
00:19:04
He's got a job interview next week and I really got my fingers
00:19:07
crossed for him that he can get back out there and stay living
00:19:11
in that high vibrational state Interesting that's really
00:19:14
interesting yeah so it's out there.
00:19:16
possession is out there.
00:19:18
You don't always the movies have given us a dramatic view of
00:19:23
it, not a reality view, oh yeah there's bits of this movie
00:19:26
where she's seeing her late husband, especially near the end
00:19:33
of the movie.
00:19:34
Pete: Now I'm thinking is there any link there between this
00:19:37
entity and her?
00:19:39
Is it her late husband, or is it something else or something
00:19:43
that's just giving her that vision or whatever?
00:19:47
Anna: So we know what happened to Amelia.
00:19:50
Can we say what happened to her ?
00:19:52
Pete: Yeah, we can.
00:19:53
Anna: She lost her husband in a car accident.
00:19:55
She didn't seek mental health care and so for I think it was
00:19:58
seven or eight years, she had a massive pool of grief and this
00:20:03
entity being new that don't ask me how they can read people
00:20:05
energy, they just know they knew that she had grief.
00:20:09
So what would make her create more grief would be to see her
00:20:16
husband standing in front of her .
00:20:18
So it took on the facade of the partner.
00:20:22
So seeing him would also destabilize her and make her
00:20:27
question why am I seeing you?
00:20:30
Are you dead?
00:20:30
Are you alive?
00:20:31
Am I in a dream?
00:20:33
So it kind of makes people question their reality and their
00:20:37
mental health and this being was slowly sort of wearing her
00:20:41
down so it could get into her, her energy field, her chakras,
00:20:46
get into her mind, become that possession that we hear so often
00:20:52
talked about.
00:20:53
Pete: Well, at the end of the day, it's asking her to bring
00:20:56
the boy to him.
00:20:56
Remember that I think it was near the end of the film where
00:20:59
it's the husband, or the vision of the husband she's seeing, is
00:21:05
asking her to bring the boy to him.
00:21:07
Anna: Yeah, yeah.
00:21:07
And is that that it wants to possess the boy as well, or does
00:21:13
it actually want to harm the boy?
00:21:15
Or is she a crossing point, because demonic beings always
00:21:21
move from host to host?
00:21:22
This is what I find when I do people clearing is that when I
00:21:26
clear them from my clients, they will always come through that
00:21:30
cord that I create to work with a client, an energy cord.
00:21:34
They will come to me and then I have to clear them from myself.
00:21:37
So was it using Amelia as a halfway point to actually get to
00:21:42
the boy?
00:21:43
Because if that being was in a six year old, it's going to have
00:21:47
a lot longer lifespan with him than it is with a middle aged
00:21:52
woman.
00:22:00
Pete: I just wanted to take a short break and thank you all
00:22:02
for listening.
00:22:03
Don't forget you can follow at Dingo, at my Movie, on social
00:22:06
media.
00:22:07
We're at Dingo Movie on Twitter , dingo Movie Pod on Facebook
00:22:11
and Instagram and we're on the web at DingoMoviePodcom.
00:22:14
Don't forget also, if you'd like to support the show, leave
00:22:18
us a rating or review on Apple Podcast or, more importantly,
00:22:22
share the show with your friends .
00:22:23
Of course, you can always buy me a coffee over at
00:22:26
BuyMeYourCoffeecom slash Dingo Movie Pod.
00:22:30
Once again, thanks for listening and let's get back to the
00:22:33
episode.
00:22:33
I really love it because it is a dark film in a lot of ways,
00:22:48
but it did have some funny bits, like my favorite scene, or one
00:22:53
of my favorite scenes is probably when those social
00:22:55
workers come to the house and they ask Sam how he's going and
00:23:00
he says he's a bit tired from all the drugs that mum's given
00:23:02
me.
00:23:03
I'm like well, that's a very honest young boy and that's his
00:23:09
character, though right, he just says things straight out, like
00:23:12
he says to somebody very early in the movie that my dad lives
00:23:16
in the cemetery, or something like that, and he's just very
00:23:20
direct.
00:23:21
Anna: The kids are, direct I work with children as a teacher
00:23:24
assistant for like 12 years.
00:23:26
So five and six year olds, they tell you there's no beating
00:23:30
around the bush with kids, there's no filter right.
00:23:33
They're going to give you the answer.
00:23:34
This movie offers lots of people with different
00:23:39
perspectives, different ways to look at it, different ways to
00:23:44
read it, different things to think about.
00:23:46
So one of the things that I thought about with this movie
00:23:49
because I work with dark and demonic beings pretty much every
00:23:53
day is that they are energy beings, just like your higher
00:23:58
vibrational beings, your guides, angels, archangels and so forth
00:24:01
, but they're just at the other end of the scale.
00:24:02
They have emotions of their own .
00:24:06
They have a soul, whether you want to think about that or not.
00:24:10
I've worked with them long enough to know there is soul
00:24:12
energy.
00:24:13
There Was this being lonely as another point of why it actually
00:24:19
came to Amelia?
00:24:20
Did it want a family?
00:24:21
He was just looking for someone .
00:24:23
Pete: He just wanted almost, almost, like he wanted a friend,
00:24:27
so to speak.
00:24:27
Yeah, yeah, you kind of see that at the end of the movie,
00:24:31
right where she's gained control and they're kind of, once again
00:24:36
, it's probably going to spoil it, but what the hell, they're
00:24:39
kind of living with it.
00:24:41
Anna: She manages the relationship is how I call it.
00:24:44
She manages it, yeah.
00:24:45
Pete: I think so.
00:24:46
Anna: And I feel it in a way, she felt sorry for it and I feel
00:24:51
it in a way it was lonely and it was looking for.
00:24:54
I don't know why it doesn't connect with its own kind.
00:24:57
That's probably a whole other topic to think about for another
00:25:00
time but it was drawn to her energy and I think in a way as
00:25:08
much as it did the possession thing, maybe in another
00:25:11
perspective it didn't really want to hurt her, Just wanted to
00:25:15
be close to her.
00:25:16
I know that's a bit macabre and a bit out there Makes sense,
00:25:21
but if it wanted to try to get her attention.
00:25:23
if it wanted to actually kill them, it probably could have.
00:25:26
I pushed her down those stairs.
00:25:28
The stairs were very steep.
00:25:29
I mean, when she had that knife and did what she did in the
00:25:33
movie, she could have actually turned it on herself and then
00:25:37
she would have been dead and she would have been in spirit and
00:25:40
possibly been with this energy being.
00:25:42
I don't know why.
00:25:43
Maybe it was banished to the Earth's reality for some reason.
00:25:47
There's so many different aspects to look at, but I feel
00:25:51
that it was actually lonely and it was trying to attach to her
00:25:55
being a demonic level being.
00:25:56
They don't know how to deal with humans in a decent way and
00:26:01
it was just doing what I think it was the only thing it
00:26:04
understood how to do.
00:26:05
Pete: There's so much to unpack with this movie.
00:26:08
I just found it really hard to actually unpack everything
00:26:11
because, like I said, I was looking at the relationship with
00:26:14
her and her sister and how that had gone downhill.
00:26:17
And the sister has that moment where she says to her I hate
00:26:21
being around your son, and then she gets angry at her sister for
00:26:26
saying that.
00:26:27
But then she sort of says well, I think you do too.
00:26:30
I was just so much.
00:26:31
And some of the imagery in this movie is amazing when I think
00:26:35
of things like the book.
00:26:37
For starters, like you were saying, the book is probably
00:26:39
just a plot device, right?
00:26:40
Because I was thinking one of the first questions is like,
00:26:43
well, if this is like some sort of entity, where did the book
00:26:47
come from?
00:26:48
How they link together, right.
00:26:49
And because I have no idea where the book comes from.
00:26:52
And then she tears the book up and the book just turns up again
00:26:56
.
00:26:56
She burns it, it doesn't matter , it's still there.
00:26:59
So I'm not sure where the origins of the book are.
00:27:02
And then the stuff she's watching on TV is very
00:27:05
interesting, the TV shows she's watching occasionally although
00:27:09
we get a nice shout out for Skippy the Bush Kangaroo on
00:27:12
there which is quite good.
00:27:13
I'm always chuffed to see Skippy the Bush, kangaroo and some of
00:27:18
the imagery on the TV shows and things like that was interesting
00:27:22
and I think some of the imagery for the entity or the Babadook
00:27:27
itself was taken from like some very early horror films in the
00:27:32
20s and 30s and 40s, that sort of thing.
00:27:35
There was also talk that Jennifer Kent early on wanted to
00:27:39
film the whole thing in black and white, which would have been
00:27:42
a very interesting way to watch the movie as well if it was in
00:27:45
black and white, because that just changes the whole thing.
00:27:49
But I just find this so much to unpack with this movie that
00:27:53
it's just like almost not overwhelming but it almost feels
00:27:57
like that, like I said, that first night you go to bed and
00:28:00
you just laid in bed thinking about it.
00:28:02
Anna: Yeah, exactly.
00:28:03
And if we looked at Amelia's sister, her relationship with
00:28:07
her nephew, I just don't think she understood Sam as an
00:28:12
individual.
00:28:13
She didn't actually want to because he was I don't want to
00:28:16
use the word different.
00:28:17
He was very creative, he was very down to earth, whereas her
00:28:22
family were all about the looks and the shoes and the princess
00:28:26
dresses for the daughter was all very materialistic, whereas
00:28:31
Amelia and Sam didn't have that material life.
00:28:34
It's almost like the sisters were at two different ends of
00:28:37
the scale.
00:28:38
The sister was so wrapped up in herself and I know that Amelia
00:28:42
had sort of how can I put it?
00:28:44
She'd drawn on her sister's energy a lot and probably she'd
00:28:48
got sick of hearing the same old story all the time.
00:28:50
But Amelia really was struggling.
00:28:52
You think her sister would have taken her off to see a
00:28:55
psychologist.
00:28:56
There would have been some sort of intervention.
00:28:58
It was really obvious that she needed mental health care and
00:29:04
we're Sam with the tablets.
00:29:05
You'd think that the doctor would have said well, look, we
00:29:10
need to book you in to see a psychologist to help you work
00:29:14
through your grief.
00:29:15
Have you seen a grief counselor ?
00:29:17
Because Sam couldn't sleep, because he was protecting his
00:29:20
mum from what was in the house because he knew it wanted to get
00:29:24
to her.
00:29:24
But how does a young boy explain that to their parent or
00:29:28
to the lady next door?
00:29:29
Now, we didn't talk about the lady next door.
00:29:31
I got sort of sidetracked, as I do when I talk about the
00:29:34
paranormal.
00:29:35
I just feel like she was a grounding figure throughout this
00:29:40
whole movie because it spends a lot of time in the ether, you
00:29:44
know, talking about the darkness and about energy and about
00:29:47
vibration and about this dense energy.
00:29:49
She was almost like a grounding force, like that earthly
00:29:54
grandma sort of figure that would be there for Sam if he
00:29:58
needed someone.
00:29:59
So I just feel like she was a nice old lady next door who was
00:30:03
lonely herself and that really enjoyed Sam's company.
00:30:07
Pete: You can see that at the end, like that final, one of the
00:30:09
final scenes where he's obviously been staying with her
00:30:13
when she comes home from work.
00:30:14
I think actually in a movie as dark as this you kind of need a
00:30:17
character like that to kind of just bring some a bit of
00:30:21
normalcy into it and to make it like, oh okay, when she's around
00:30:26
there's nothing really bad going on and she has their
00:30:29
interests at heart.
00:30:29
The other scene that's interesting and I guess it's the
00:30:31
only blooper I can remember in the whole film is when Sam
00:30:36
pushes his cousin out of the cubby house when they're having
00:30:39
that argument and she's being absolutely terrible to him and
00:30:45
her mother's not having a bar of it.
00:30:47
When it all happens she's just like oh, it's all Sam's problem,
00:30:51
it's all his problem, he's the one.
00:30:52
But she was standing there telling him in that house, a
00:30:56
six-year-old boy.
00:30:57
She was telling him, as kids do , I guess, that you know you
00:31:00
don't have a dad, you're not special, blah, blah, blah, etc.
00:31:03
And he pushes her out.
00:31:04
The only blooper I saw in the film is she falls out, I think
00:31:08
backwards, but is forwards when she's on the ground.
00:31:11
When he comes out and he says he's making his excuse to why he
00:31:16
pushed her out, then the girl's mother or Amelia's sister is
00:31:21
not having a bar of it.
00:31:22
She's just like there's something wrong with you.
00:31:24
I'm not listening to what you're doing, what you're saying
00:31:28
and that's it.
00:31:28
She's got no time for him at all, like you were saying.
00:31:32
Anna: No, well, it's Mummy's little princess never does
00:31:34
anything wrong.
00:31:34
She can say whatever she likes and she can hurt whatever she
00:31:39
you know whichever person that she likes through her words.
00:31:41
But I mean, what Sam did was wrong.
00:31:45
Pushing her was wrong.
00:31:46
But children and adults will react in a split second if they
00:31:51
are triggered.
00:31:52
She knew she was her mother's daughter to a T Even at the age
00:31:57
of six.
00:31:58
She was quite nasty for a six year old.
00:32:00
Obviously parent modeling hadn't been very good.
00:32:03
So she triggered Sam in such a way because he'd had trauma in
00:32:09
his life.
00:32:09
He's still got trauma, he's dead.
00:32:11
He's dead.
00:32:11
His mum's unwell.
00:32:13
The lady next door is sort of like a grandmother figure, which
00:32:17
is helpful.
00:32:17
But he just reacted like anyone would react in that split
00:32:22
second, especially a child.
00:32:24
They're not going to think first oh, if I push her she's
00:32:26
going to fall out.
00:32:27
He was reacting because of what she said and if the mother was
00:32:33
decent she would have asked both sides of the story.
00:32:37
Well, actually you shouldn't have said that to Sam.
00:32:39
You are just as much at fault as he is.
00:32:42
But she was just so one-sided not even interested.
00:32:46
They're totally different people.
00:32:48
Pete: Well, there's even the point where obviously they've
00:32:51
had both their birthdays at the same time every year, the two
00:32:56
cousins.
00:32:56
And then it comes to the point where Amelia asks her about what
00:33:02
do you want me to do for this upcoming party?
00:33:04
You want me to get the cake or something.
00:33:05
And then she has to tell her well, I'm not going to do that
00:33:08
this year, I just want my daughter to have her own party,
00:33:12
which in a way I kind of agree with as well, because it's like
00:33:15
Amelia really needs to like to move on, but like she probably
00:33:18
should have had that help to do so.
00:33:22
And it was very interesting that at the end of the movie she
00:33:25
actually is celebrating his birthday on the right day Almost
00:33:28
a happy ending in a way.
00:33:30
Sam really dies in this movie except, like obviously, the
00:33:36
father, but you knew that before the movie even started.
00:33:38
It's really interesting how they have taken this great
00:33:42
journey through this film and at the end she's kind of almost
00:33:48
content with the world.
00:33:49
She looks like she's back at work, she looks better in
00:33:52
general, she seems more in control.
00:33:55
Like you said, there's that scene that you love where she
00:33:57
kind of just stands up to everything, yeah, and really and
00:34:01
really owns it, and I think that's where she takes control.
00:34:05
And once she takes control, then she's empowered and she's
00:34:09
happier and she's got this thing , this entity, kind of under her
00:34:14
control.
00:34:15
Or is it just there?
00:34:16
It's quite happy to be living like that now because she's he's
00:34:20
getting attention or whatever it is getting attention, even if
00:34:24
it is just eating worms.
00:34:25
Anna: You know you took the words right out of my mouth, as
00:34:27
you were saying on that I'm going.
00:34:29
This whole movie, as dark as it was, and some of the things
00:34:33
that did happen, the whole thing made her a stronger human being
00:34:38
.
00:34:38
She actually took control of her life and went.
00:34:43
You know what?
00:34:44
I'm not going to live like this .
00:34:46
I know you're here, you're going to be staying here, for
00:34:50
whatever reason that is.
00:34:51
We're going to have to get along.
00:34:53
So we're going to have to compromise.
00:34:56
So she compromised with a demonic level being.
00:34:59
It stayed in the basement.
00:35:01
She fed it what she could Not that she probably needed to feed
00:35:04
it anything anyway, because it's an energy being, but we
00:35:06
won't go there with that.
00:35:07
I think that was more a.
00:35:09
That was more an offering.
00:35:12
That was more giving it an offering.
00:35:14
As you know, I appreciate you.
00:35:16
I know you're here.
00:35:17
We need to kind of look after each other and I feel like she
00:35:21
actually had a sense of compassion for this being.
00:35:27
I mean quite often when I work with.
00:35:29
I work with clearing these demonic beings from people.
00:35:31
Like I said before, they'll come through the courting that I
00:35:34
create.
00:35:34
I clear them for whatever they're attached to within me,
00:35:37
because they're only interested in the emotions.
00:35:39
I clear that away.
00:35:41
They go back out in the environment.
00:35:43
You don't harm them.
00:35:44
You don't disrespect them.
00:35:46
I work very respectfully with these beings because you've got
00:35:50
to remember, there are millions of them out there and I've had
00:35:54
experiences in the early days where if you're rude to them or
00:35:56
you try to do something inappropriate, there is a
00:35:59
backlash, there is retaliation.
00:36:00
So I've learned that what I put out with them, the way I treat
00:36:05
them, is generally what I get back.
00:36:07
So that's what Amelia did.
00:36:09
Is that she, this thing, retreated to the basement
00:36:12
because it was a dark place?
00:36:14
It could be down there and in exist in.
00:36:16
I actually think there was a portal down there too, but
00:36:19
that's a topic for another.
00:36:20
I think maybe it used to come and go through the basement,
00:36:24
which is very dark in that back corner, but I think it just
00:36:28
liked her.
00:36:28
For whatever reason, it felt a connection to her energy for
00:36:33
some reason.
00:36:33
Like you said, there's a lot to unpack in this movie.
00:36:37
It's more than what you see on the surface.
00:36:40
Pete: Absolutely, that's like I said, had a lot to do with my
00:36:43
five hours sleep, the usual seven or eight.
00:36:46
The final thing I say about this movie that is so good is that
00:36:49
it's super chilling.
00:36:50
It's quite scary in parts, it's disturbing, but the best part
00:36:57
that I remember is never once that I can recall did the movie
00:37:02
resort to jump scares.
00:37:03
I don't think there's one jump scare in this movie.
00:37:05
You know I'm talking about the jump scare, right?
00:37:07
So there's nothing.
00:37:08
It's just, it's all atmosphere and just disturbing themes and
00:37:13
things like that.
00:37:14
That makes it frightening and I think that's what makes a great
00:37:19
movie.
00:37:19
Great is that, especially with a horror film, because horror
00:37:23
films rely like, if you've seen in CDS or any of those movies,
00:37:27
those movies really rely on jump scares, like really quiet and
00:37:30
then some bang or something like that, whereas this movie really
00:37:33
there was banging and things, but it wasn't kind of done in
00:37:37
such a way to make you jump, it wasn't, it was just there, if
00:37:41
you know what I mean.
00:37:42
Anna: So I think that's what elevates this movie above some
00:37:46
others and well, I always say to people that there's a
00:37:50
difference between the horror paranormal movies and true
00:37:55
paranormal movies, which is what the Baba Dook is.
00:37:58
It is purely psychological and it's actually very real.
00:38:03
So this is what I like and this is why my podcast is called
00:38:06
perfectly paranormal, because it's normal, it's just a normal
00:38:10
part of our life and you can see it in Amelia.
00:38:13
This being is in her house.
00:38:15
Her son is interacting with it.
00:38:16
She's interacting with it.
00:38:18
It's causing all sorts of trauma.
00:38:20
This is what they do.
00:38:22
A lot of those other movies you might get, like the ones we've
00:38:26
mentioned, you might get maybe 10% of it is what I would call
00:38:30
real paranormal.
00:38:31
The rest of it's what I call paranormal drama, which is what
00:38:35
people want.
00:38:35
They don't want the real stuff.
00:38:38
They want the drama stuff that's going to give them the
00:38:40
jump, scares and the fear and so forth, because that's horror
00:38:44
but that's not real paranormal.
00:38:47
Pete: All right.
00:38:48
So that was talk, a very good conversation around the Babadook
00:38:52
, which I loved.
00:38:53
You loved it Absolutely, you're gonna.
00:38:55
You said you're gonna watch it again, so it's great.
00:38:57
I'll probably watch it again for sure, because I like there's
00:39:01
still so much that I want to get out of it and I think movies
00:39:04
like that really benefit from multiple watches.
00:39:07
So looking forward to that.
00:39:10
So tell me a little bit about your podcast and what your
00:39:14
latest episodes all about.
00:39:16
Anna: Ah, they can find you.
00:39:17
Yeah, I'm sorry.
00:39:18
I talked a little bit about that during our interview, is
00:39:22
that?
00:39:22
Pete: that's right.
00:39:23
This is the official plug section.
00:39:25
Anna: Oh sorry.
00:39:25
So here we go.
00:39:26
So I work is what I call a paranormal house clearer.
00:39:30
So I'm based in Tasmania in Australia and I work worldwide.
00:39:35
I'm actually starting a job in Florence, italy, tomorrow.
00:39:38
All you need is the permission of the person who owns the
00:39:42
property photos, floor plans and a couple of other things and I
00:39:46
can enter that property energetically and clear the
00:39:49
energy presences that are there that shouldn't be there.
00:39:52
It's fascinating work.
00:39:54
So my podcast is based on sharing real life experiences.
00:39:59
I always change people's names and locations if I ever mention
00:40:05
a location, and usually the gender, so you're going to find
00:40:08
it really hard to pinpoint it to a particular person if you
00:40:11
think you know who they are.
00:40:13
Because it's all about sharing the experiences.
00:40:16
To make it relatable, just as we've talked about in the
00:40:21
Babadook, is that what Amelia went through is actually very
00:40:25
relevant to real life.
00:40:27
So I take the paranormal in reality.
00:40:31
I don't do the horror, don't do the jump scares.
00:40:33
What I talk about is no fear.
00:40:36
In what I talk about through my podcast it's very relatable.
00:40:41
I do make it slightly not dramatic.
00:40:44
I suppose I'm a Leo, so I'm slightly dramatic.
00:40:47
I make it interesting, but there's none of the fear based.
00:40:50
There's no go.
00:40:50
I mean, I've got 10 year olds watching it, their mums
00:40:54
listening to it, their mums let them listen to it because then
00:40:57
they can understand about the paranormal world around us, and
00:41:01
I share lots of what the signs and symptoms are, how these
00:41:05
beings affect you, so that you can notice in your environment
00:41:10
when things change or you go into a place and all of a sudden
00:41:14
you don't feel well, your stomach's hurting, your head's
00:41:17
hurting, your vision's blurry, all these sorts of symptoms.
00:41:20
It's just a bad awareness.
00:41:23
So I'm all about educating people about the paranormal
00:41:27
world that is around us.
00:41:29
Pete: I found it really accessible, the episodes I've
00:41:32
listened to, and I also think it's great that you don't go
00:41:36
straight for the paranormal stuff in the way that you always
00:41:41
say and I think you mentioned this earlier today is see a
00:41:45
doctor, see a psychologist or a psychiatrist, then we'll talk
00:41:49
about it.
00:41:49
So, in other words, let's make sure there's no other issues
00:41:53
there, then we can go from there .
00:41:55
Absolutely, what's your latest episode?
00:41:58
Is it the one I listened to?
00:41:59
Anna: It's episode 32 and it's all about possession.
00:42:03
I talk about three or four different stories that I've
00:42:07
experienced of possession through my many years of doing
00:42:12
this work, and it's all very relatable.
00:42:14
I mean, there's nothing scary about the way I talk about this
00:42:17
and this is why I find that it's hard to promote it, because
00:42:20
everyone wants they all want the paranormal drama.
00:42:24
Pete: You're on socials.
00:42:25
Can people contact you on socials?
00:42:27
I have Instagram.
00:42:28
Anna: I also have a website and I can send you those details if
00:42:32
you like.
00:42:33
Pete: Yeah, that'd be great because I'll put them in the
00:42:34
show notes.
00:42:35
Anna: Yeah, that'd be lovely.
00:42:37
Pete: Well, thanks so much for coming on.
00:42:38
It's been great talking to you.
00:42:40
Anna: You're welcome.
00:42:40
I've loved it.
00:42:41
Pete: I can always talk about the paranormal, anytime I know,
00:42:44
I can tell, and when we return we'll be talking about what's
00:42:48
coming up next.
00:42:53
Speaker 1: And now preview time.
00:42:55
When it comes to entertainment, you can't beat a good film, so
00:43:05
let's take a look at what's coming your way, what we see and
00:43:13
what we seem about a dream, a dream within a dream.
00:43:19
You must learn to love someone else apart from me.
00:43:29
Sarah, I won't be here much longer.
00:43:34
Good morning, girls, Good morning.
00:43:52
Anna: Mrs Appanella.
00:43:54
Speaker 1: Well, young ladies, we are indeed fortunate in the
00:43:56
weather for our picnic to Hanging Rock.
00:43:57
I have instructed ma'am Wazelle there's, the day is likely to
00:44:01
be warm.
00:44:01
You may remove your gloves once the drag has passed through
00:44:04
wood end.
00:44:05
We'll partake of luncheon at the picnic grounds near the rock
00:44:09
.
00:44:09
Once again, let me remind you, the rock itself is extremely
00:44:13
dangerous.
00:44:13
You are therefore forbidden any tomboy foolishness in the
00:44:16
matter of exploration, even on the lowest slopes.
00:44:39
Pete: Miranda, miranda, miranda, don't go on there, come back
00:44:56
Next up on A Dingo.
00:44:57
At my Movie I'm joined by a very good friend of the show,
00:44:59
tab, and we'll be talking about Peter Wears.
00:45:02
Mysterious and Haunting Picnic at Hanging Rock from 1975.
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